(electronic music) - "A Slice of the Community" is made possible by the support of the First Horizon Foundation.

Hello and welcome to another episode of "A Slice of the Community."

I'm your host, Jerome Moore.

Today we are joined by artistic director and CEO of the Nashville Ballet, Nick Mullikin, and artistic Director of Odds Arts, Mark Murphy.

Gentlemen, how y'all doing today?

- Doing great.

Thanks for having us.

- Great, thanks.

- Nah, I'm excited to talk about the arts.

I think I'm an artsy person a little bit.

By consuming and looking, but, you know, ask me to draw a stick person.

I can do that for you, you know.

But no, thank you.

I think arts is always a big topic in various ways and how people define art.

You know, I think it changes, varies.

I think that's one of the larger conversation pieces that I've actually heard and being discussed is what is art?

How do you define it?

Who chooses and decides what that is?

So, I'm interested to start off this conversation about getting that perspective from both of you all who are artistic directors who run artistic organizations, about what does that mean personally to you, arts, and who gets to pick and choose what that is?

And I'll start with you first, Nick.

- Okay.

Well, first off, that's an incredibly difficult conversation, right?

Because I think art is always something that is reflected in the person experiencing it.

And so there's no one thing that I think encapsulates what art is.

It can be, you know, you said at the very beginning of this, I can do a stick figure, but when I listen to you speak, the words that you use, the choices that you're making, evoke an emotion inside of me.

And inside of that, to me, there's a sense of artistic-ness.

- [Jerome] Mm.

- Inside of the way that we create for us dance.

But the way that we use our bodies, the way that we use our hands, the way that we speak, the drawing.

The experiences that individuals have, that they're able to then share with someone else, to me that's art.

And I think that there isn't a way to codify it or to put it into a box or to do anything.

I think it's just a visceral experience that we have on the day to day.

- Okay, how about you, Mark?

- We have a fairly broad definition of what art is because I think it's any form of creative expression that has the potential to stir the soul.

It doesn't have to be the end product of a great deal of work.

It could be the process of art making itself, or any creative act can be considered art.

In fact, if the artist says it's art, then I believe them.

And that is art.

And the curatorial function sometimes what you're looking for is vitality or a spark or a fresh approach, or a way that an artist can perhaps even invent a new form that really captures the essence of either an issue or an emotion.

Poetry versus prose, I would say.

- I think it's an interesting conversation because when we get into the systems, right, of like, of who's deciding what their art is plays into, who's able to get funding.

And I think that's an interesting intersection.

So are there opportunities to do better as far as in a system of art, of being able to maybe think outside the box in black and white and when it comes to who has opportunities to funds and grants and all of those things when it comes to this work is art, or I am an artist.

I'll start with you on that, Mark.

- Yeah, well that speaks to the vitality, and I think sometimes excellence is important, but I think vitality or vibrancy is more important than precision or the polish.

- [Jerome] Yeah.

- So sometimes some of the most interesting art is gonna be created in community-based settings or small fringe organizations or individual artists who may not achieve much recognition or commercial success.

And so that's why it's important that support be available, not just for the most mainstream arts, but that we encourage experimentation, innovation, and diversity in all of its forms, in terms of art form, in terms of discipline, and in terms of background and perspective.

- Yeah, how about you Nick?

- Well, no, I think that kind of starts to hit the nail on the head for you, which is that access to resources and funds to create your art shouldn't be conditional on whether or not there's an organization or a structure with it.

It should be conditional on the fact of where you are trying to take this and present it, right?

So it's not even how large is the audience?

Are you trying to make an impact on your community?

Are you trying to share something that the world hasn't seen before?

Are you trying to take a risk?

- [Jerome] Right.

- Because as you know, large organizations, we're sometimes bound by requirements for payroll.

We're bound by these different things, which means that the creative steps that we can take are almost inhibited.

- [Jerome] Mhm.

- Whereas, an individual maybe has that opportunity to take a bigger risk if they've got the support needed.

- [Jerome] Right.

- And it probably doesn't create quite as much of a burden on the system financially to take that risk.

- [Jerome] Right.

- Right?

So like 10 or $15,000 can make a massive difference for an individual to be able to fund their project, to be able to create it and to have that lasting impact on it.

And maybe that jumpstarts their career and maybe that gets them going to where they need to go.

So no, there shouldn't be any boxes for it.

No, there shouldn't be any conditions on it.

But at the same time, you know, we're talking about grants in one way, but if we're talking about federal dollars or state dollars or any of these other things, there's different, I think, responsibilities to taxpayers as well.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- But I also think that there are a lot of institutions and a lot of places who want to fund individuals for the sake of creation.

- [Jerome] Right.

- And there has to be some sort of balance of accountability inside of that, I think.

But not in the, you have to fill out your nine nineties and you've gotta do all of this.

It's like, are you gonna create the work?

Great, you created the work.

Show us what you created.

That to me sounds like accountability, right?

Not like.

- [Jerome] Right.

- We've gotta go through this entire process of creating tax forms and all of that, which can be really onerous or burdensome for an individual who doesn't maybe have, wants, I'll say, wants the skills to do it.

I don't wanna do it.

- I might not want to start a whole business or create a LLC or any, I just like, I just want to create my art work.

- Yeah.

- Create my work and present it to the world and hopefully have some type of impact.

- And I really hope that we provide those opportunities for individuals 'cause I think those individuals have unbridled creativity.

They don't need to have the analytical mind to do what they do.

- Right.

How do you all both balance that, the sustainability of like artistic integrity with the financial side of things, the business side of things?

And I think, you know, you both run high level organizations from the top position of amazing staff and team members.

But what's the insight of that?

And what goes through your mind when you're looking at something like, man, it's like this funding on this grant, it may be restrictive, but I really want to create this and it's the artistic integrity to do it this way.

How does that play out for you all?

I'll start with you on that, Mark.

- Well, I work with an organization that takes risks.

The whole focus of our being is to support innovation and new ideas in the arts.

Both by bringing visiting artists in from elsewhere and by supporting local artists to give them a chance to experiment.

So sometimes I think that the higher the risk you're taking on stage or in the organization, the more cautious you have to be in terms of the financial management in order to balance that to make sure that it doesn't work.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- Because anything can, anything can happen.

And sometimes when trying to find the support that you need, you need to describe things in the terms that that funder might find most attractive.

I mean, perhaps I think risk, and I think creative adventure is extremely important.

Some funders may think actually we are more interested in the biggest and brightest and looking at just the numbers in terms of attendance and more, not commercial success, but impact in terms of numbers, rather than influence or passion.

So it's a constant balancing act.

- Yeah, and I think that's the struggle for a lot of artists, right?

It's like, you might have something that's really great, but at this particular time, at the funding that you, at the funding you're trying to receive from a particular funder, they're not, they don't wanna take their risk on something they haven't seen a proof of concept that you can sell shows or, you know, the art go off the wall or people attend to see the, whatever it may be.

And I just think that's just always like, 'cause you put all your money, you invest up front in everything, right?

And you are like, well now I need more money to let the world to see it.

You know?

But it's like, well, I don't have any proof that like outside of my own eyes and who I maybe show to my family and friends, that this is great work and it will have impact.

I need that access to a Mark or to a Nick.

How about you Nick?

- I mean, I think, I think you see it perpetually in our field, Especially in ballet, which is that we are really trying to strike this balance of ensuring that our audiences who have come with us to this point are feeling served by the work that we do for that part of the community.

And then there's another part of the community that is just aching for us to grow and to change and to develop and to really go into those new spaces.

And when we do things like that, the financial risk is not any less large in a lot of cases than some of the safer works.

So if we take a full length ballet, at times, it's almost easier for us to produce this big show that's gonna create more revenue for us because it's more well known than it is to say, to put together a mixed bill, which requires bringing in choreographers, which hotel rooms, time, all of these different things.

And so there's a huge outlay of investment there for perhaps not a lot of return on ticket sales because people don't know what it is.

- [Jerome] Correct.

- So in those moments, I find that we have to really straddle trying to create work that everybody is gonna find appealing, while at the same time recognizing that if we only do that, the work is gonna die on the vine.

- [Jerome] Right.

- And we can't then take what has become a classical art form with so many different, albeit, incredibly justified baggage with it, and shed that or move it forward, if we don't take the risks.

And so we really rely heavily on funders and people who want to see the work moving forward in that way.

And it's in, you know, we've sort of danced around it a little bit, but it's in those instances where we can see where government funding can come in and provide us with the support needed to take those risks.

Because it says we value what you're trying to do to evolve for your community, to try and become something more than what we would traditionally consider a ballet company.

And those moments become essential.

- [Jerome] Mhm.

- Because otherwise, the work is gonna become even more homogenous.

We're gonna have to do "Nutcracker" more times.

We're gonna have to do more "Swan Lakes," we're gonna have to do more "Cinderellas."

And while those works of art are incredibly important to give us the baseline for things, they should be the baseline.

- [Jerome] Right.

- They should be the starting point for us to help understand the vocabulary of movement that we're trying to create, so that when individuals come in and they go, oh, that's how that spun into that and how that spun into that.

It's so essential that we're able to take those risks.

But at times, I don't feel like financially, it's the responsible thing to just fully do the risks or to fully change the programming 'cause there are so many people relying on us as an institution to provide for the community in one way.

- [Jerome] Right.

- But then also paychecks for artists.

- Nashville being an ongoing, changing demographic by the day it feels like.

I see a new building, parking lot, something.

How do you all take that into account with the artistic scene of Nashville and where do you see opportunity to grow in that with people coming not just from within the United States of America, but also outside, abroad, to come visit Nashville, to come live in Nashville, come to work in Nashville?

I'll start with you on that, Mark.

- It's a very exciting time for Nashville right now because there's a lot of growth, but also a lot of change.

And sometimes, certain sectors drive that.

If you look at Nashville right now, the universities are becoming more international and expanding their scope in that way.

The technological sector is growing rapidly, and that's bringing a lot of innovative thinkers and people from out outside, from major cities and also other international centers.

And it's also a time when there's a growing audience too.

Nashville has not, in the visual arts, Nashville has not had such a tradition of collectors and of, you know, commercially driven art world in the visual arts.

I think that is beginning to change.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And there's advantages and disadvantages to that commodification process.

But one of the risks I think is that as the city grows rapidly, we lose what makes it possible for artists to really make art here, such as the space that they need.

I mean, your studios here in the Wedgewood Houston area, which at one time, not when I moved here even five years ago, had a lot of warehouse spaces, loft spaces, rehearsal spaces, and those have now been developed at one form or another.

So Nashville has a, you know, a DIY approach to, you know, making art that is becoming more and more informed by the rest of the world.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And we have to overcome some of the challenges that that growth.

- [Jerome] Growth.

- Brings to the city.

- Mhm, how about you, Nick?

- Well, it's such a challenging question, right?

Because I think when we talk about new people coming to Nashville, we're not talking again about one singular type of person.

- [Jerome] Exactly.

- And so, you know, and what's fascinating for us is we do our, our surveys, right?

And so for members to come back in, I get two types of survey responses.

One is I never expected that from a ballet company.

And the other one is, can you do more as a ballet company?

So, you know, that part of it really has a direct impact for it.

But as I observe it, I see honestly what I hope is an expanding base of art, which is this, what we were talking about a little bit earlier, is this demand for something different, this demand for something new, so that we're not creating the same thing over and over again.

And, you know, we in the city, I think really take advantage of collaborations.

But now what do those collaborations start to take shape as?

And how do we start to grow that?

How do we diversify what we've been doing, not just from our partnerships, but from the work that we're creating and why we're creating it?

- [Jerome] Mhm.

- And think that part of it to me just sounds fascinating and fun and that's what you want from a city that grows and develops.

I've been here for 10 years, actually next month is 10 years, I believe.

- [Jerome] Congratulations.

- Thank you.

I've made my decade here.

But I would say that one of the things that's been exciting about seeing the city expand and grow is the demand for higher quality work and for more work in general.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- So I think those two things, again, go hand in hand quite nicely, which is, I don't wanna disparate the city on your television show, but, you know, I lived in Austin and I went to school in Austin, and then I revisited Austin and I watched how that city has changed pretty dramatically from what I consider to be a small town with a lot of the same vibe as Nashville.

- It's a sister city for sure.

- Yeah, and then I go down to South Congress and I watched the way that Nike's gone in, or I watched the way that these other stores have gone in and changed the landscape of something like South Congress.

And I think, boy, I really hope Nashville can hold onto that sense of spirit and creativity.

And I hope that that gets reflected in the art that we share in our community.

I make jokes about the wings all the time, but they're iconic for a reason.

They evoke that emotion for an individual when they come to the city.

We need more of that.

We need more community-centric work.

And I think, I'm hoping that that comes to life.

- Well, you know, I'm all about community, right?

And when you talk about the sense of Nashville, one of my worries is that soul, right?

That I think that allows people to want to navigate here.

And maintaining that sense of our soul as a city is important to me.

And I think it's important to many community members.

As far as community in that soul, how do you all play a part in, from an artistic perspective, but from a community perspective and making sure that people can appreciate the soul of Nashville theater arts, but also feel welcomed.

You know, know that like, hey, you know, you can be a part of this on any level, even if it's from a, just a consumer or watcher or appreciate or as an actual artist or perspective or inspiring artist.

I'll start with you on that, Mark.

- It's the key word there is welcome.

I think that's very important to really let people in the community know that you want them and that.

- [Jerome] You do.

(Mark and Jerome laugh) - And sometimes that is as simple as having affordable, you know, ticket prices for events.

It's also encouraging and creating opportunities for artists to be able to propose something and to drive the programming in that way.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- We have, we're not a rich organization, but we have other resources.

- Really, you know, I thought all art organizations had all this millions and millions of dollars.

You know, it's the elite of the elite.

- We do have a big.

- We can certainly go to a budget breakdown if you want to.

(Jerome laughs) - We do have a big 10,000 square foot room, a creative warehouse.

We like to think and we can, we like to make that available to artists to collaborate and to use as a laboratory of sorts.

And have really tried to, in every way possible, encourage artists who are still emerging in their field, or may not, you know, are still developing, may not even feel they're ready for that sort of opportunity to consider it, to propose something.

Highlight of diversity of different forms, different ethnicities, different backgrounds, and a lot of collaboration between art forms.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- Leading to hopefully, you know, the invention of something new.

And that catches the, hopefully, you know, the soul of individual artists that inspires them to create something and they collectively, as individual artists make up that soul of the city.

- Okay.

How about you on that, Nick?

The soul.

- The soul of the city.

I mean, I think that's a challenging one because again, if we get into it, it's such a wide ranging city.

- [Jerome] Yeah, it's a broad brush.

- And there's a lot of different ways to talk about the soul of the city.

And so I will try and do it from a sense of engaging with the community.

- [Jerome] Yeah.

- And so from my, you know, what Nashville Ballet does is obviously free art experiences in the library and going to schools and creating opportunities for Title One students to come and take class with us.

But then if they're talented or want to do it, they can have a lifetime training scholarship at the School of Nashville Ballet.

- [Jerome] Wow.

- We, you know, last year served 16,000 plus people in the community with our art experiences.

And the really great thing that I'm excited about is for the "Nutcracker," which we kind of consider the quintessential ballet thing, we give 2000 tickets a year to holiday magic through partnership organizations, but then also start at a free dress rehearsal for students to come in so that they can come and do a full performance.

We actually leave the curtain out, so that they can see the different tech elements.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And so individuals can see that the work itself doesn't have to be perfected, but there's a way to work inside of the arts that is attainable for just about anyone.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And I think, you know, we have partnership schools and we do all of this different work and we have scholarships to our school and we do different choreographers and we've got different programs and free art experiences and we do all of these different things to try and make sure that people feel like they can come into the building.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- But then also the programming is reflected inside of that.

And so in October, we did a Dia de los Muertos and that alone isn't, I don't necessarily think sufficient.

It's like okay, great.

But we used Mexican music from here in Nashville.

We worked with Plaza Mariachi, invited the Hispanic Family Foundation to come in and perform as part of that.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- We worked with Mike Kyones to create and curate our gallery inside of the space.

And Mike also live painted for our free open house during the course of that.

And then is coming back again with another young student who's gonna be featured as part of our May performance.

- [Jerome] Wow.

- These things aren't huge.

They're not game changers.

They're not gonna rewrite the book of what ballet is.

But for me, that's how we start to make sure that our audience is in the building and that from people outside have that chance to experience what ballet is, so it doesn't feel so scary.

And I think one of the things that 10 years ago we talked about was, can we get people to even walk in the building?

And now we've got a robust community adult division that adults 18 and up make up over 1200 students who visit the school of Nashville Ballet.

And that is across all different walks of programming, which I think is really cool.

- I wanna, we come, we're coming near to the end, but I want to touch on this.

I think this is important.

'Cause I said something, I was like, man, I really wanna get y'all's feedback on this, is this elitism.

I think when it comes to, when you're looking at arts and the perception that people have about who is welcomed, who actually can come into this space.

Can you all very quickly like break that down?

Or maybe perceptions or stereotypes that may not be true, one or two of them when it comes to arts, that people may feel like that they're not welcome.

That it is elite and I have to do arts in this fine, very Eurocentric way.

I'll start with you on that, Nick.

- Well, I think I would just offer, if somebody walks into any community in any space and takes a look at the art in that community in any world, do they sometimes wonder if they understand it?

- [Jerome] Mm.

- Do they feel excluded during the course of it?

Do they feel any of those things?

I think it's a natural reaction to any art.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And so I would encourage people who feel that way.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And are able to walk through our doors or to experience, to sit there and go, it's all right to not know.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- It's cool to not know.

In fact, that's the best way to overcome the hurdle of this because most of the people that I work with in this field, they aren't some sort of elite something or other.

They had found their pathway, just like any artist does, through the means and the methodology of ballet.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And that's all it is.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And so, you know, ideally we're creating a space where people can see themselves on stage, that our company reflects that, that our school reflects that.

But at the same time, everyone's gotta be willing to go, man, I just don't know.

- Right, how about you, Mark?

- Well, I think there's a limited exposure to, especially in the performing arts, to attending performances for a lot of young people in Nashville.

So sometimes there's a stigma attached to it.

So we try as much as possible, especially since our program is international, with artists from Brazil and from South Africa and from Korea and Chile, to create sort of an ambassador club of sorts.

And we get people together to help spread the word about something in their community.

Sometimes people are more likely to respond if they hear about it from someone they know, word of mouth.

Or even better yet, by collaborating with various different organizations, there's opportunities for the visiting artists to have impact in different neighborhoods.

And that helps to create even more interest.

And you realize, you know, this is fun.

- All right, so to close out, I wanna give you all each 30 seconds, 30 seconds to, what do you all have coming up next that people in Middle Tennessee or wherever they may be, to come to Nashville to participate in, see, be a part of?

I'll start with you, Nick.

- All right, so May 2nd through the fourth we're performing at TPAC.

We've got a brand new work for myself that focuses on mental health, addiction, and recovery with brand new sets, costumes, music and design.

- [Jerome] Wow.

- Really trying to tell a narrative of an individual who falls on the hardest of hard times.

But then we end that story with hope.

And I'm really excited about being able to share this story as it becomes an expansion on a personal narrative.

- [Jerome] What was those dates again?

- May 2nd through the fourth.

- May 2nd through the fourth.

How about you, Mark?

- Well, two weeks after that, the weekend before Memorial Day, we'll have the fourth edition of our Brave New Works Lab.

- [Jerome] Okay.

- And premiering four different projects, a hiphop choreographer, Coco French, Media and Music Collective, the Englewood Social Club, another choreographic piece, and then a collaboration, which is the South African boot dancer and some step dancers.

It'll be a lot of fun.

And it's local artists collaborating, inventing something new.

And so that'll be the world premiere so.

- So in May we got all things arts happening.

(Nick laughs) - That's true.

- Well, I wanna thank you gentlemen for being here and talking all things arts.

And I look forward to retaining that soul of Nashville through the artistic lens.

And I wanna thank everybody that's watching "A Slice of the Community."

Check us out on YouTube, and see y'all next time.

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