- [Becky] Sometimes life gives you an opportunity to reflect on what you would do with a clean slate.

Our guest on this episode is Judah Akers, the lead singer and songwriter behind the alternative rock band, Judah & the Lion.

♪ I've thrown away my compass ♪ ♪ Done with the chart ♪ ♪ I'm tired of spinning around ♪ ♪ Looking for direction, northern star ♪ ♪ I'm tired of spinning around ♪ ♪ I'll just step out ♪ ♪ Throw my doubt into the sea ♪ ♪ For what's meant to be will be ♪ - [Becky] For over a decade, Judah Akers has been touring with the band he and fellow classmates and musicians created when they were all attending Belmont University in Nashville.

As a Tennessee native with strong family ties, Judah has always filled songs with soul searching lyrics that connect deeply to an ever-growing fan base.

The band has toured extensively in the US, Canada, and Europe, playing concerts, festivals, and major network television shows.

Returning to live performance after the pandemic and on the release of their fourth album, "Revival," Judah & the Lion hit the road on a nationwide tour in a moment of rejuvenation and evolution for the band, both personally and professionally.

"Revival" is a collection of songs that speaks to the band's return to innocence and hope through reclamation.

♪ Let's go take a walk downtown ♪ ♪ And act like we're the heroes that ♪ ♪ We dreamed we'd be when we were young ♪ - [Becky] The band's "Pep Talk" album debuted number seven on the Billboard 200, and in 2019 they received iHeartRadio's Music Award for best new alternative rock artist of the year.

Judah & the Lion has had several gold and platinum selling singles and four top 10 alt radio hits, including the number one single, "Take It All Back."

♪ And I'd take it all back, take it all back ♪ ♪ Take it all back ♪ ♪ I'd take it all back just to have you ♪ - Catching Judah at home in Nashville before his upcoming Revival Tour, we were able to join him at Ivy Hall Studio.

Judah, this is such a treat for me as always.

You know, we share a hometown in Cookeville, Tennessee, and I've known you literally since you were tiny.

So to see you in this, just really your element here at this incredible studio at Ivy Hall.

What a treat, thank you.

- Yeah, me too, thank you so much.

- So what does this studio mean to you?

You've recorded your latest "Revival" here?

- Yeah, so this studio kind of in the heart of East Nashville has been really the bulk, and kind of the foundation of a lot of our recordings.

Whether it be from starting a song on the piano over there, or being downstairs and tracking drums or you know, vocals or whatever it may be.

But the bulk of any of our projects, really the last couple records have been in this studio.

And it's really nice for me because my house is just down the street.

You can bike over here and kind of make it feel like a little bit like you're, you know, I mean, it's kind of the small town feel.

I mean, small town home feel like kind of reminds me of home, you know, in a weird way.

So yeah, we get in here, cozy up, and it's been like a magical spot for us every time we're in here, we just kind of feel creative, if that makes sense.

- Absolutely.

And "Revival" is your latest album, which is such a, I love that album.

There's an innocence to it that is so refreshing but it's very personal.

You know, how would you describe it?

- So "Revival" was written, mostly based off of just my experience with the pandemic and just feeling like in life sometimes.

I had gone through kind of a whole lot of just mental stuff before the pandemic and then, you know, the pandemic happens and we're going from 250 shows a year to obviously not playing shows and canceling tours and just kind of trying to figure out what was going on.

Obviously the world was going through a crazy transition.

The music industry got hit kind of unexpectedly.

So we went from, you know, being kind of busy bodies to being forced to be at home.

And so all the things that were still happening in my life, whether it be a friend that committed suicide or you know, a friend struggling with x and y or whatever, all of a sudden, you know, I wasn't having like the distraction of the shows to go and kind of cope.

In that way, I was all of a sudden, you know, home, alone trying to deal with all these feelings and it honestly came up and surfaced in a pretty ugly way for me.

Like I was kind of in this chronic depression that I felt like I couldn't get out of, started having like pretty paralyzing panic attacks and stuff like that, I had kind of heard of people experiencing, but never experienced myself.

And so "Revival" was kind of this thought of, okay, all these things are going on.

Like how do I actually learn to process this and to be okay with these emotions that are coming up and not fight off the depression?

Because sometimes the panic, for me it happens is when you just kind of try to fight it, you know, I just want to be positive, you know, I just want the world to be okay and the truth of it was, you know, the world was kind of in a sad spot and I was as well.

And so kind of accepting that fully and being able to move forward and be okay with that, is kind of what Revival's about.

It's just kind of the letting go of that.

- You know, and thank you for being so brave to be so vulnerable because that is something that really rings true about your music.

You know, it's very personal.

The lyrics are very personal and I've seen you live, I saw the "Pep Talks" when it was here in Nashville and it was a really inspiring and moving concert and you connect with people so much in that.

So, what does that bring to you?

What does that kind of life, being open, being vulnerable bring to you?

- Thank you, that was really kind.

I mean, I hope it brings me what I hope it brings other people, which is hope and just this solidarity in the fact that, you know, we're all doing life together, and somehow maybe my specific story or journey within my own life, which is personal and usually very specific intentionally, somehow can connect with someone else's story.

And in that way, at shows we're in some weird way as strangers kind of doing life together.

And I know the artists that I love are the ones that kind of make and have made me feel known, whether it be as a kid, like giving words to things that I didn't even know how to say or, you know.

Obviously I want our music to always kind of have this undertone of hope and love at the end of the day.

And connecting in that way in a live show is like one of my favorite things that I get to do, is obviously what I missed over the pandemic so much.

And this last tour was, it felt magnified in some ways because, you know, I hadn't done it in so long.

And yeah, music is such a beautiful source of connection, which I hope brings a lot of hope to people.

- Well, it does, Judah, thank you for that.

It really does, I love that song, "Take a Walk", because it does take you back to that time when you were a kid, and you can just get out and take a walk.

So what are the inspirations of yourself?

Like "Blue Eyes" is another one that's amazing.

You have beautiful blue eyes.

- Oh, thank you.

Yeah, so I mean for me, I just naturally just write specifically.

Early on, you know, we had a record called "Kids These Days".

It was just kind of about us dropping out of school and me finishing like college baseball and all of a sudden we're living in a van, you know, the six of us guys and we have no clue what we're doing, but it was such a blast.

You know, we're having fun, we're going playing house shows, we're playing shows in front of five people in Louisville on a Tuesday night and nobody cares.

You know, it's like those moments of just kinda like, we're gonna go out, get after our dreams.

And then, you know, "Pep Talks" kind of being more of a personal record, just about family dramas and just how life can be difficult, and starting to kind of open myself up to therapy and mental health and getting down to the roots of stuff.

And then this last record just kind of being about this unraveling of heartbreak that I was going through personally.

Again, just being forced to deal with these heavier kind of situations, but also like finding beauty, like writing a song about my grandpa and he was like my first like true.

I'd lost like grandparents or whatever before, but this was like my first kind of like real look at death just with his cancer.

And it was the first death that you kind of knew, so you gotta go say goodbye.

Just the process of that now as a 30 year old, like what does that look like now?

It happened, you know, it's seven years ago or whatever, but it still kind of hangs with you.

And so, I think the songs always come from a deep personal spot, whether that's a good or bad thing, it's just kind of the way that it is for me.

Yeah, so sometimes it's more specific than others like "Blue Eyes", but I hope that it has this general sense of authenticity and vulnerability.

- Yeah, no, it does, it's beautiful.

And you all have created four full length albums, that's pretty ambitious, and with touring and writing, so what's your life like?

- The pandemic was such a great pruning and its just like, okay, how do we do this healthily?

You know, what does this next chapter look like for us?

You know, we just turned 10, the band was like such a great kind of feat for us.

We're like, okay, what does the next 10 years look like?

How do we become a band that's not only like quote, unquote, successful, but like healthy?

- Yeah.

- In our spirits, in our souls, we're really wanting to focus on just touring in America and just making that the intention.

We've toured kind of across the globe and I think we've found that just like this is kind of our spot that we want to like, focus on at least for the time being, and not do 200 shows a year, maybe do more like a hundred and keep putting out music that is meeting us like right where we're at in the seasons that we're in.

And hopefully that's connecting.

- Well I think, you know, you're experiencing what a lot of us are experiencing of wanting that work life balance and having more of a healthy life and being with people that you wanna be with and having time for that.

I think that's so important.

So, you know, that brings me to the title of our show is called "Clean Slate," because we really wanna ask people to sort of imagine if you were given a clean slate, either personally or professionally or within your community, what would that look like?

So for you, what would you say about that?

- So I don't know if this is gonna bend, so you'll have to steer me back into place if it's not good for the show.

But I just thought about this concept of like shame and guilt that us as humans just naturally, I mean, you know.

As kids it's like we're kind of taught, you know, like you did bad or, you know, as like a lesson.

It's like, "hey Judah, don't lie to your sister" or "don't punch your brother," whatever.

And I think there's this kind of unwinding as you get older of shame kind of gets misplaced in our hearts.

And so I think if there was a clean slate then I would want it to be like, how do I unravel and have like a clean slate when it comes to like just that word shame or guilt that oftentimes gets attached to our performances or how successful we are.

I've always kind of played this kind of perfectionistic role which I think in some ways is probably good.

In aspects I do like for things to be in order and I do like to work hard and go about things in a right way.

But sometimes the negative, I guess, repercussion of that is you're naturally feeling like you're not enough.

- Yeah.

- And I have to have, I have to look like this or have to have whatever, this type of accolade, to feel like I'm worthy of love or whatever it may be.

And I know that's a very natural human juxtaposition on life.

So I think to unravel that and have a clean slate, and to be able to feel like going about life and know that you're worthy of love despite what you do or who you are.

- Yeah, so you would eliminate shame.

- Eliminate shame, fear, yeah.

- Judah, I think that's just so critical because shame is so paralyzing and, you know, you probably want to please.

I know a lot of us, I mean, I struggle with shame too, I think anybody who wants to please other people, it's difficult.

And so I applaud you for recognizing it, but also just addressing it.

So if you could make a change just immediately in your life, is there something just you'd go, "man, I could just do that today.

I'm gonna try that today."

- Well, I've really gotten into painting.

- Oh, painting?

- So yeah, I don't know that I would wanna make it into like a career or whatever like that, but abstract art and like oil paint and specifically like spray paint and stuff like that.

I've really gotten into it over the pandemic.

I was almost like prescribed to me by my therapist.

Just like, go do something that you don't feel like you're really good at.

And I have no clue what's good.

You know, so I think, I think there's two thoughts there.

Maybe this is more kind of concrete of something physical that I would continue just to have like a, I'm kind of set up like a quasi paint studio at my house, which is like really fun.

And again, I'm just doing it for fun.

I put my Bose headphones in, listen to my music and just start going.

Yeah just, I don't know, like opening myself up more to things like that that make me feel creative.

I think sometimes with songwriting, you know, when it becomes your job, there's a fine line between like being a workaholic and actually loving writing songs, or like I'm coping through this thing.

But it's something I love to do and it's obviously my expression and what my passion is, but it's been so fun to have something else creative that you're not necessarily needing to make money off of.

- Right, no, I think that's fun.

(Judah laughs) That is super fun.

So, you know, I know of course you were a star athlete in high school and college.

- Star is a stretch, but thank you.

- And playing baseball, right?

You went to Belmont, played baseball, so did Judah & the Lions start there?

- It did, so junior year, at Belmont.

We're in the middle of kind of a Christmas break.

So the music business program that I was in, you have access to all these amazing studios and you kind of quickly realize, well, in two years I don't have access to these studios.

Like it costs bajillions of dollars, what felt like at the time to use.

So I was really encouraged just by my mom and classmates to actually record these songs that I was writing.

So that's the Christmas break, going into my junior year that December was when I met the boys and it just kind of happened.

We weren't friends before.

It was like just a random, I was this like random college baseball dude, you know, that they didn't know about.

They were like, "all right, we'll just come jam with you."

And so they brought their banjo and mandolin and I think I called, it was like a first date, I called my mom after.

I was like, "I think I met the guys that I'm supposed to make music with," that type of thing.

- Wow.

- And we were crazy enough to start a band.

It's like, that's just funny story.

- Wow, it's so awesome.

And so, you know, 10 years in, I know your band's going through some changes because that happens.

If you were to build it today, are there three things you've learned in this decade that you would maybe approach it differently?

- You know, of course.

I mean, I think the first thing is people pleasing.

I think if you're gonna make good art, you know, I think you have to kind of again, peel back that layer of fear and shame and all this stuff.

Second is, I would just tell myself like, be ready to bust your, am I allowed to say ass?

- You can.

(chuckles) - Butt.

Because, you know, bands just don't make it, you know, without getting on the road and doing that.

And it costs a whole lot.

You know, you're gone from family, you're gone from friends, you're missing weddings, you're missing all these things but it's worth it.

It's like, I mean, it's passion.

It's like, you know, what it's worth.

And I think the last thing is a mentor actually told me is like, I make every word, make everything count.

You know, because when that one kid is coming to the show and maybe he just lost a parent or maybe his, you know, friend just committed suicide or struggling in his own mental health way, you wanna make it count for that kid.

- Yeah.

And you know, you, in your concerts, you do that, you speak out directly to the audience about if they're feeling pain.

When did you start doing that and what's been the reaction of the audience to that?

- It's always like, I think it's always been a part of just the why, the why I wanted to make music in general.

You know, we got asked to be on the David Letterman Show pretty early on.

We had just dropped outta school and came out with our first record "Kids These Days".

And he had just randomly been a fan of one of the songs on the record.

And so we honestly probably should not have been on the show.

We had like 2000 followers to our name at the time, you know.

- Wow.

- It was like, we were an indie rock band from Belmont, you know?

- Yep.

- But we were on the show and after that show we went back home, it was shot on Thursday, aired on Friday, and we went back home and watched it with, you know, our families.

And it was one of those moments, like, so big, you know, you grow up watching the David Letterman Show and it's like, you know, people in your hometown like start to be like, they're not just like in a minivan or whatever.

- They're a real band.

- They actually might be a band.

But, you know, we got like five followers from the show.

It's like, we thought we were gonna like blow up.

And it's like, you know, you quickly realized, man, this is such a beautiful moment, and it was so fleeting.

And so we literally had like a meeting and I think it was like the next week, like guys, if we're gonna do this, like we have to know like all these dreams of playing Madison Square Garden or getting, like, we just headlined Red Rocks or playing like Ascend Amphitheater or doing all of these amazing things are so pivotal, but they're such fleeting moments.

And so like, how do we make moments that count for people that are coming?

And so I think making those connections at this show and just in Q&As or meet and greets are honestly what's the most important to us because it feels like you're actually friends with someone along their journey.

And it's been, I don't wanna get emotional, but it's been overwhelming at times to hear some of the stories of this song, like, got me through my dad, like being an alcoholic or this, you know.

My uncle committed suicide and this song like, I wish he would like, would've listened to this song.

So it's those moments for me that count because once you feel the pain of that, you wanna help people through it.

- Yeah.

Well it's a daunting experience to be the soundtrack to somebody's life, but what a beautiful testimony to you and to being open and vulnerable and sharing that you can be, I mean, it makes a difference.

- Thank you.

- You know, so you've had some really fun opportunities to do, like your song is the Nashville Soccer Club anthem, right?

And so how does that feel when you see that stadium and you see it filled with people?

And I know you played the opening game.

What's that like?

- Well, being a Tennessee boy and like seeing, you know, really remembering like the Titans and the Preds coming in, that was just like me geeking out as an athlete.

You know, I was fairly new to soccer.

I think touring over in the UK really opened my brain to like, oh my God, like, these UK games are crazy, you know, for soccer.

And so when NSC kind of came into town and then get to write the song and kind of have this feel of like what song that they were wanting, you know, they weren't wanting this like hoorah song.

They wanted like a ballad, like a romantic ballad and they wanted to be about family and about heart and about not giving up.

And it was just fun as like an athlete just to kind of imagine that now, to go back to the stadium and then they're, you know, they're holding their scarves and doing their thing and singing the song.

It's pretty special.

♪ No matter how far the sun and the moon ♪ ♪ I'll never give up on you ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ - So Judah, I know you're getting ready to go out on tour with "Revival" and you'll be doing that over this year.

So tell us a little bit about that and what you're looking forward to.

- So we're back out in March.

It's mostly the United States, southeast kind of region, heavily like college towns, which, you know, for us as a band, we really grew up in these kind of small college towns like Athens and doing house shows and coffee shops at like Knoxville.

So this tour is special.

We just finished the (indistinct) tour.

We're doing like all the big cities and it was amazing to be back out.

It's our first tour since the pandemic and so to be back out this spring in the places that kind of built us.

We're really excited about.

So that'll be in the spring, festival's in the summer and then back out headlining the bigger markets in the fall.

- Awesome, well, just in the few moments we have left, is there anything that you would just like to share with folks to wrap up?

- No, well, I just love you.

- Oh, I love you.

- Like family and it's always special to get to talk to you and thank you.

And I've always been someone that just admired you and what you do and I really like coming on to your show and being able to kind of meet everybody and do this.

So thank you.

I think, you know, thinking about the "Clean Slate," kind of wrapping it maybe in a bow here, just like, I think one of the most powerful things in life that we can do as people is learn how to surrender.

And as a kid, you know, as athletes, like surrender kind of gets this negative connotation of like being weak or, you know, like surrender, like a sign of defeat.

But it's actually like one of the most powerful, courageous things you could do in life.

And I think to surrender to whatever it may be, you know, for me it's my faith and whatever is kind of like happening and accepting it.

I think surrender is the clean slate that I want.

- Well, I love you.

- I love you, too.

- And I appreciate you, thanks.

That got me all emotional, thank you.

(upbeat music) ♪ I've thrown away my compass ♪ ♪ Done with the chart ♪ ♪ I'm tired of spinning around in one direction ♪ (upbeat music) (calm music)