The Songwriters is supported in part by The Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation Rusty and Kacie Gaston The Mike Curb Foundation SESAC, BMI and ASCAP Rich and Charlotte Hallworth Kerry O'Neil and Carla Wallace Additional support is provided by.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Welcome to The Songwriters.

I'm Ken Paulson and we are doing the show today in a new location.

This is Allentown Studio, a place where a lot of big hits have been recorded.

A lot of Hall of Fame songwriters have actually had songs recorded here as well.

A historic place.

And we have one of the great songwriters here with us today.

So glad to welcome Sharon Vaughn.

- Hi, Ken.

- Good to see you.

Sharon, by the way, is not just a legendary songwriter and a member of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

She's also on the board, which means she helps preserve all of this stuff.

And we appreciate that as well.

It's my distinct pleasure because I believe in the organization, and I believe in songwriters with all my heart and soul.

- As do the folks who watch this show.

So it's a shared mission and a very important one.

I, I want to take you back a bit to your earliest days I, I want to take you back a bit to your earliest days in this town.

We are in Nashville, Tennessee, where 1971, We are in Nashville, Tennessee, where 1971, you were a hot, up and coming Country artist.

- Pterodactyls darkened the sky.

[laughing] It was a crazy, crazy time.

- You were you were going to be.

You were you were going to be.

I think based on what I've heard of a very prominent recording artist, you actually had early success with a man astonishingly named Narvel Felts - Right.

Great singer, great guy.

I was on Cinnamon Records and a little independent label.

That was later my contract was bought by ABC Dot.

And Jim Fogelsong was my champion, and - Jim Fogelsong is such a legend in the history of Country music.

And he believed in me.

But I, I had a little detour because I had a big hit record, and that changed my trajectory, so to speak.

- Well, one of the things about that young woman is, is really your confidence to me as a as a songwriter.

I know that your biggest early hit is one that came about because you sort of pushed it.

- I mean, you plugged you, as they call in the business, - are song pluggers who go in and say, - [claps hands] you need to record my song, and you were largely doing that yourself.

- Oh yeah.

I was stupidly fearless.

It's kind of followed me my whole life.

I assume you're talking about the event where I barged into Waylon Jennings█ office.

- That would be it.

Yeah, yeah.

There was a wonderful woman, Hazel Smith.

She was later a journalist, but she.

She was Waylon Jennings█ receptionist.

- I didn't know that.

- Yes, and she was.

And at the time, I have to kind of backtrack a little bit.

I was a local celebrity - on a furniture commercial that ran every night.

I was that that girl.

After the news that drove you crazy, you wanted to throw your your bedroom slipper at the television.

If I came on one more time because I was always on after the news, I was the Ray Batts girl.

- Ray Batts.

- Yes, indeed.

- And I sang a jingle and a very enthusiastically that I wrote.

- Do you still have that jingle in your head?

- Can you.

.

.

is that in your repertoire?

I certainly do.

[laughs] - Let's hear it.

It was.

It was the thing.

[sings] ♪ Ray Batts, my kind of furniture man ♪ And I was just very enthusiastic about this cheap, gaudy, awful furniture.

[Ken laughs] So anyway.

.

.

- everybody in Nashville knew the Ray Batts girl.

So I had written this song.

My publisher, a producer, had said, go home and write me a cowboy song.

And I did, and came back and played it the next day for him, and it was for Bobby Bare, and Bobby passed on it.

Which I have harassed him about for years, but - Sure.

Sure.

But, um.

.

.

So, undaunted I had just recorded a song called “Back In The Country,” written by W. Jennings and Troy Seals.

And I got my record that day, oddly enough, and I just grabbed my 45 and I thought, Waylon Jennings.

W. Jennings, that's Waylon Jennings.

I'm going to go play Waylon, my record.

[Ken laughs] And so I went to Waylon█s office, and Hazel's at the front desk, and she pushes the talk back button and she said, Waylon, the Ray Batts girl is here to see you.

And so little did I know that Waylon Jennings had a crush on the Ray Batts girl.

- Oh, wow.

Which helped matters.

- I'm sure.

Up to a point.

- So I go in and I give him my 45, and he plays it all the way through.

He said that's nice Sharon but I didn't write it.

So humiliated as I was, I was being a dog owner all my life.

I said, sit and stay.

And I ran to my car, past, out past Hazel back, back, past Hazel with my 45, with my reel to reel tape.

Little six inch reel to reel.

And I threw it across Waylon█s desk and I said, here█s the song I wrote just for you.

[Ken laughs] So he played it, and he got to the first chorus, and he stopped it, and he turned around that big old naugahyde chair and he said, who wrote this song?

And I said, I did.

So he rolls it back, plays it again, stops after the first verse and chorus.

I want to know who wrote this damn song.

I said I did.

He did that one more time, and I started to reach across the desk and get my tape back, and he said, I want to want to know who wrote this blankety blank song.

And so Swamp Girl then showed up and I said, I did.

Thank you so much for your time.

And then he he rolled it back, played it all the way through, rolled it back, played it all the way through.

Three times he did that again, picked up the phone, called Jack Clement in Beaumont, Texas, and he said, Colonel.

I want you to get here tonight.

We got us a song to record.

- Wow.

So it was side one cut one on the first million selling album in Country music history.

Wanted!

The Outlaws.

You know what's so astonishing about that story is .

.

.

the players.

- You, Hazel, Waylon and Cowboy Jack.

- Yeah.

That's that's.

Wow.

That's like in Camelot.

They would be the Knights of the Round Table.

- That's right.

All major - players in the future of the industry.

- I have to ask you if you can play it.

And I see this gentleman sitting nearby, and I suspect he can help.

Yes.

Yes.

I want to introduce you to Mike Sievers, who has been, first of all, one of my dearest and most lovely friends.

And also Mike has played for me under just about every kind of circumstance you can imagine.

And he's he's one of the A-Team recording artists and players and produces Felix Cavaliere.

He's a great producer, writer, and he came today to help us do a little show and tell.

- Well thank you Mike, much appreciated.

Let's hear the song that Waylon Jennings could not believe you wrote.

♪ [”My Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys”] ♪ ♪ ♪ [singing] ♪ I grew up a-dreamin█ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ of being a cowboy ♪ ♪ Loving the cowboy ways ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Pursuing ♪ ♪ the life of my high-riding heroes ♪ ♪ I burned up my childhood days ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I learned all the rules ♪ ♪ of the modern day drifter ♪ ♪ Don't you hold on to nothing ♪ ♪ too long ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Just take what you need from the ladies ♪ ♪ and leave them with the words ♪ ♪ of a sad Country song ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ My heroes have always ♪ ♪ been cowboys ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ And they still are it seems ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Sadly, in search of ♪ ♪ and one ♪ ♪ step in back of, themselves ♪ ♪ and their slow moving dreams ♪ ♪ ♪ [speaking the line] Cowboys are special ♪ with their own brand of misery ♪ ♪ from being alone too long ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ You could die from the cold ♪ ♪ in the arms of a nightmare ♪ ♪ Knowing well ♪ ♪ your best days are gone ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Pickin█ up hookers ♪ ♪ instead of my pen ♪ ♪ I left the words of my ♪ ♪ youth fade away ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Old worn-out saddles ♪ ♪ and old worn-out memories ♪ ♪ But no one and no place to stay ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ My heroes have always ♪ ♪ been cowboys ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ And they still are, it seems ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Sadly, in search of ♪ ♪ and one step in back of ♪ ♪ Themselves and their slow movin█ dreams ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Sadly in search of ♪ ♪ and one step in back of ♪ ♪ Themselves and their slow movin█ ♪ ♪ dreams ♪ Beautiful.

Just beautiful.

Thank you.

I, um.

.

.

Did you have any sense at that moment that your life was about to change dramatically?

You know?

No, I didn't, I had absolutely no idea.

- So how long?

How many minutes later did you resign as the Ray Batts girl?

[laughs] Yeah, I kept doing those stupid things for a while because I quit once, and they called me and they said, Sharon, we've lost 37% of our business.

[Ken laughs] And.

But yeah, it was.

No, you just that was one of those pivotal moments where life kind of changes, does a little pivot on its axis.

But having been a highly successful songwriter all that time since then, are you able now and able to look back and go, yeah, you know, that was one of the finest songs I've ever written.

- Or do you just see flaws?

No, I don't see flaws in that.

- Perfect.

Because oddly enough, I don't.

- Perfect.

Most every other thing I've written since then I see flaws.

But that was such a. .

.

It took me 17 minutes to write that song.

And I know that because I'm a voracious clock watcher and just somehow another I looked over and saw the time and I it was one of those gushers I call them.

It was a stream of consciousness thing that comes from, well, for one thing, I saw this.

I basically cheated on this because I saw it as a film in my head.

And it ran for 17 minutes and I transcribed what I saw.

That was basically the way it happened.

So that song ends up on The Outlaws, which becomes this totally unexpected massive hit.

- I know it.

But basically launches the Outlaw Country movement, - the Renegade Country movement.

Then Willie does It in 1980 - Yeah.

becomes a huge hit.

And, and.

.

.

and and it's obviously been a staple and has been done by every Country bar band for, for decades.

And of course, changed the path of your career as well.

Yeah.

The good news is you didn't have to struggle as much anymore.

People knew who you were, knew what you were capable of, - capable of, and it's not too long before - you get a big hit with the Oak Ridge Boys.

- How did that come about?

- Did you go into their office - and pin them against the wall - and say, you have to record the song?

[laughs] No.

You know, they cut “Y'all Come Back Saloon” before “Heroes.” Oh, okay.

That was the first song I ever had recorded.

And it was the.

And it was a massive hit.

It kind of was a pivotal thing for them, for their careers, because it was the first secular song that, you know, they had a tremendous career as the Gospel group all those years before and then decided that they would go mainstream Country.

And this was their first release - Wow.

And at the time, was there something about ‘70s charts that you had in mind?

- Was there anything calculated about this?

- Because in the beginning, I mean, “Heroes,” your publisher is saying, write me a Cowboy song.

Right.

- Did somebody say, write me a saloon song?

No, it was funny.

I was, I was a singer, as you said before, but I also was, I had spent many years as a studio singer, and that's a whole different thing.

You know, these guys and the girls, you know, that's a that's a whole family.

And back when I was doing it, I would do three, four sessions a day, sometimes start at 10 o█clock.

Sometimes end up 1 o█clock in the next morning.

It was full on and and but we didn't have Pro Tools and we didn't have tuning and we didn't have all the things that are available to the the young artists and the young producers and young singers today.

But we would go into the studio and Mike remembers these days, I would we would go in and I was with the Lea Jane Singers and I was also with the Nashville Edition, and I also sang with The Jordanaires a lot.

Anytime they needed a girl, you know, Millie Kirkham and I would sing with with the Jordanaires, which was a trip!

But we would go into the in the studio and the producer would come in with a, a number chart or not even that, he would come and play the song on the guitar or play it on a, on a tape.

We would write down the numbers, the numbers, meaning that the that's the musical language in Nashville.

It's the movable-do is what it is.

But we would - write down and I would scurry in and write down the lyric sheets, the notes, because nine times out of ten, the producer didn't even give us a lyric sheet.

And then we would go to the mic and we'd run it down a couple of times.

Right, Mike?

We'd run it down a couple of times maybe, and then we'd go to red.

And the and the background vocalist had to figure out where they would “ooo,” where they would “ahhh” [Ken laughs] or where they would sing the lyrics.

And we had to intuitively know what part - Wow.

we were going to sing.

And it was all intuition.

All taste.

And then that was.

And then we would record, maybe we'd on three sessions, we would record at least three master songs - that would be hit records before you turned around.

So it was instant gratification, but it was also instant pressure.

You had to know what you were doing intuitively.

And the first time I ever sang on a session, Jim Glaser of the Glaser Brothers, the magnificent Glaser Brothers, he called me.

And I had never been in a studio before, but he called me and he said, Sharon, listen, I have a session out at Bradley's Barn.

- Wow.

Owen Bradley's producing this thing.

And.

And Eileen Hardin was supposed to be the soprano, and she can't make it.

Can you do it?

And I went, sure!

[laughing] - And so on the way out here to the barn, which was in Mount Juliet, which was a fair piece, you know, to travel.

And he said, you do know the number system?

And I went, absolutely.

I figured I could count to 1 to 10.

[laughing] So I knew what that was.

.

.

so I got out there and didn't have a clue what the man was talking about.

But I figured, okay, I'm a harmony singer.

I'm just going to get to the top of the harmony structure and hang on for dear life.

And that's exactly what I did.

And the song was “Christopher the Christmas Tree.” I'll never forget it.

- And that was my launch into not only singing in a in a studio, but also the lingo and the camaraderie that was just, you know, and I did tons of sessions with Brenda Lee out there, and that's where Conway cut, everybody.

So.

So I was immediately part of that family.

And I attribute my years as a background vocalist and to teaching me how to write a song from the bones out.

Speaking of which, can we hear a little bit of “Y'all Come Back Saloon”?

Sure, sure.

♪ █ [guitar strums] ♪ █ [sings] ♪ She played tambourine ♪ ♪ with a silver jingle, and she must ♪ ♪ have known the words to at least a million tunes ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ But the one most requested ♪ ♪ by the man she knew as Cowboy was the late night ♪ ♪ benediction at the Y'all Come Back Saloon ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ In a voice soft and trembling ♪ ♪ she'd sing her song to Cowboy as a smoky ♪ ♪ halo circle round her raven hair ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ All the fallen angels ♪ ♪ and the pinball playing rounders ♪ ♪ stop the games that they█d been playing for the ♪ ♪ losers█ evening prayer ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Faded love ♪ ♪ Faded memories, how they ♪ ♪ linger in the mind ♪ ♪ Miles and years, play the cowboy ♪ ♪ Like an old melody ♪ ♪ Out of tune ♪ ♪ and out of time ♪ ♪ Every night in the shadows ♪ ♪ Thinking back on Amarillo ♪ ♪ He'd dream of better days ♪ ♪ And ask for “Faded Love” ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Lifting high his glass in honor ♪ ♪ of the lady and her song ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ He paid his check ♪ ♪ then lonely walked that broken cowboy home♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ She played tambourine ♪ ♪ with a silver jingle ♪ ♪ And he must have known the words ♪ ♪ to at least a million tunes ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ But the one most requested ♪ ♪ by the man she knew as Cowboy ♪ ♪ was the late night benediction ♪ ♪ at the Y'all Come Back.

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♪ ♪ Saloon ♪ ♪ ♪ - Wow.

Fabulous.

That's just fabulous.

Thank you.

So often.

You know, I've had the honor of sitting with some of the greatest songwriters of all time and talking to them about their art, and so often there is this pattern, an amazing decade.

And then the hits stop.

They stop coming.

And at some point someone says, or they say to themselves, I█m really not going to write anymore.

And anything I hear - in my head, any songs I hear come, - I'm just going to, that's it.

I'm not going to.

.

.

I'm not going to pursue that.

I don't write songs anymore.

You're the flip side.

- I am.

I█m a lunatic.

- You had you had more than an amazing decade.

And then you leave the country and you become extraordinary, extraordinarily successful writing for European artists.

You're in Japan.

There's a band there called Exile.

No relation to, none at all, - tied to the one in this country.

A lot of Nordic Scandinavian artists.

You are a very big deal and it's like you have a new career.

How did that happen?

How did you pull it off?

And, you know, obviously you're very talented, but this is like landing on a different planet in terms of musical styles.

It is.

- It is national taste.

It is.

- And you won.

Well, you know, I have a very low boredom threshold.

And if I get bored at me, with me, I change me.

So I had been I started to get bored with me.

And so I, I've always wanted to visit in Europe and that sort of thing.

So a friend of mine was a songwriter in London, and I nabbed him at the Bluebird one night and I said, listen, Steve, I said, I would love to come over and write in London.

He said, come on.

So I did, and I was on the international committee at the CMA, and, and one of my fellow members said, listen, since you're in London, go to Ireland.

I know this guy at Peermusic and he'd love to have you.

I█ve talked to him already.

He said he'd love to have you come over and write with some of his Irish artists.

Terrific.

So I, as one does, got on a plane, went to London and then went to Ireland, started writing with some people and then fell in love with the place.

And my publisher over there was driving me back to my hotel in Dublin and we passed this.

He said, let me take you on the scenic route.

So we were on the seashore, riding along the sea shore line, and there was this little stonecutters cottage and said For Let.

And I said, stop the car.

So I picked up the phone and called the leasing agent, and leased it right then and there on the spot.

to hold all these maniacs.

And this castle was like Fawlty Towers.

I mean, there was no room the same.

But I picked the greatest people, you know, to come over.

And so I had people from England and, and Ireland and Scotland and Nashville and Austin, and they all convened together and something happened.

And I know you're probably not counting everything you have recorded.

You probably don't have a hash marks in your home, but how many hits have you had beyond the US shores?

Probably 200.

Never, never stop, Sharon Vaughn I know that.

- Thank you.

I know that you won't.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you.

Ken.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ For more information on The Songwriters, visit SongwritersShow.org ♪ ♪ The Songwriters is supported in part by The Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation Rusty and Kacie Gaston The Mike Curb Foundation SESAC, BMI and ASCAP Rich and Charlotte Hallworth Kerry O'Neil and Carla Wallace Additional support is provided by.

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