[gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters."

I'm Ken Paulson, and as you know from this show, we talk to the greatest songwriters of all time.

All members of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, and they are legends.

And there are legends, and then there are massive legends.

We're sitting here today with a man, who has two of the top 100 songs of all time.

Those would include "Crying" and "Blue Bayou".

- [chuckles] - Songs that everybody in the Western world knows, and I'm so pleased to be sitting here with Joe Melson.

Thank you for being here.

- Well, you're welcome.

I'm glad to be here and it's nice to meet you.

- I have the great privilege at Middle Tennessee State University, to actually teach a course in pop music history- actually goes back to Stephen Foster.

But the recordings you made in the early 1960s with Roy Orbison are a major part of rock history, of popular in the music history, because they sound so different.

Until then, I mean, you think about Roy Orbison's first hit is, "Ooby Dooby", which bears no resemblance to what you did.

How did you make magic with Roy Orbison?

- Orbison and I has started long before I ever knew Roy.

When I was about five or six years old, I would lay on a pallet with little country kids, I lay on a pallet in my mother's and dad's home, and listen to the Grand Ole Opry.

And I would hear the singers.

And one would sing low, and some would sing high.

I loved Johnny and Jack singing the harmony.

I loved that.

And the "Crying Heart Blues".

I loved those songs.

As I grew up, I got more and more involved in how a singer articulated, th- the song, the melody, and the words, and I learned style coming up.

And why this singer does a curve or this one.

And why this 'un just sings straight.

I said- and then I defined that if I was writing a song, I would do this.

And I would not make the mistakes of bein' limited to one little area, so to speak.

- Right.

- So as I grew up, I grew up that way, and I listened to every song in the music business.

I knew every lyric, I knew every phrase possible, in the music business.

I lived and breathed music.

And so, I did that up till- when I was about 18, I met Roy and I was ready for him.

- [laughing] - 'Cause, anything that didn't resemble the kind of music that I thought would make it, I shoved 'em away from- He was in rockabilly and I- don't get me wrong, I loved rockabilly music.

And I loved the way Roy did it.

But I thought, Elvis, with his beat in rock, he already covered all that ground, he was gone.

You can only be a follower of Elvis.

Nobody can compete with him.

So I said, "Roy we're going the wrong way."

Uh, this music has been done.

We can either be a follower or create our own music.

He said, "Okay."

'Cause he just got off Sun Label.

I don't want to get into a bunch of things.

You- you'll come back, and he didn't have anywhere to go.

He cut a little 'ol, spunky little song called, "Paper Boy".

Yeah, "Paper boy, paper boy."

No, no, high- no.

Now, Roy could sing up and down.

But how you get to that up and down is what I created.

And he fell for it like a duck to water.

- What was the first song that you showed up?

- The first song we did, I called "Pretty Rock".

It was- it was a rock and roller kind of a, a rock beat, "Uptown."

- Oh, of course.

- But I put "Na, na, na, na, na..." I put the pretty chords in it.

That he'd never heard in his music.

And we put that in.

That was the beginning of the pretty music in rock, that I was creating with him.

That was our first hit.

It wasn't a big one, it went to about 40 or 50.

- Yeah.

- But it was our start.

- When you wrote "Uptown", the melody was all yours?

- No, no, no.

We- it was a combination of both of us.

We intermingled.

But he'd listen to me sing the type of melodies I like to see, and he'd, he'd literally plant that.

And he'd come back with it.

- Yeah.

- And I'd okay it.

Because he never did anything unless I okayed it.

He said, "You like that?"

You like that, you like that?"

"Yeah."

I, I loved his voice.

But, eh, when it come to the phrasing technique, and style, that's different.

So, I would correct anything I didn't like.

He'd take to it.

- So you were able to write songs with tremendous range, knowing that Roy could deliver.

- Uh, well now Roy- I wrote a song that was a basic of the root style of his called, "Raindrops."

"Do, dah dah, dah, da da" It has that classical movement in it.

And Roy was already geared to goin' up.

- Right.

- But the way you went up, was where I come in.

You don't just go up, you got to go around- - [laughs] - And you got to make curves and you got to get to that note up there by entertaining the people on the way.

- Did Roy ever say to you, "Ah, sorry Joe, that, that, that's a note I cannot hit."

- Like?

I'm sorry.

- Well, was there ever a note that you wrote for him that was too high for him to hit?

- I don't think there's ever a note I wrote, that was too high for him.

'Cause, I pretty much knew his range.

- I see.

- Although, he surprised me many times with a little more range.

- [laughing] - [chuckles] Because he was good at it.

Uh, the most thing we- he would cut- If he didn't like a lyric, he said, "I don't like that."

It never offended me.

We just cut it out and if I didn't like one of his, I said, "That ain't got it."

- Yeah.

- And he'd cut it out.

We didn't have any arguments, about what would go, what would sell, what was good, and what was not.

It just- either we both agreed on it or it was out.

- I, um, I have to tell you that when I was a little boy, early in the 60's, I had a brother who was 10 years older than me.

And when he would get tired of a rock record, he would give it to me.

So, at age six I'm supposed to be listening to Disney records.

And he hands me this- this single of "Crying" and "Candy Man."

And I had such a good time.

[chuckles] That- that is such an amazing record.

Wh-When you wrote, "Crying" did you know, it was going to be a song of the century?

- Ah, of course not.

- Yeah.

- Uh, it didn't entertain that idea in the beginning.

We had a song we were writing for Don Gibson and I titled it- called, "Crying".

Course, Don Gibson's a wonderful artist, but he was country and it really didn't fit him, ah, the way we thought.

And we got to working with it and it began to pull together.

I hit a falsetto note, "cry-y-ying" - [laughing] - And Roy said, "Boy, that's worth going for the songs."

He fell in love with the song, "Crying" when I did the falsetto.

He said, It's not a Don Gibson."

and I said.

'No."

So, we started working on it and we worked it down to the beginning.

W- we had those X-Files.

We were- ♪ I was all right for a while ♪ ♪ I could smile for a while, but I saw you."

♪ - [laughing] - And we had that to the night before the session.

And- Roy said, "You like that beginnin'?"

I said, "Well, not really."

He said, "I don't either."

He said, "What about this?"

♪ I was all right ♪ - [laughs] - I said, "Yes!"

- [laughs] - "That's it!

"Man, don't change it.

"That's it."

And so we nailed it down that night, and the night before the session.

- Joe, you're giving me chills.

That's amazing.

- It- yeah, it was just- is a thrill.

I had a lot of thrills with Roy.

Writing with him was always a joy.

He would always listen.

- Did you sing, did you sing any background vocals for him?

- Oh, all of them.

- All of them?

- Most of me, yeah.

I did back up for, "Only the Lonely."

I did the backup for, "Blue Angel," which I wrote for my daughter, Michelle over there.

And I did the back up- and, ah- they copied me in "Blue Bayou."

They copied my sound.

'Cause, I had a sound.

And I'll- I'll fill you- you didn't ask this, but, I wasn't supposed to do the backup.

So, we went to session- excuse me- And Anita Kerr, which is a wonderful arranger out of the Nashville Symphony Orchestra.

Roy said, "Go over and rehearse them, Joe, "if you would, and show 'em th- the backup vocal."

So, I went, ♪ Dum, dum, da, dum ♪ Anita Kerr heard it.

She said, "Roy, Let him do it."

- [laughing] - "Because he's got a way of coming at that "dum, dum," "That's not like us.

"We'll go, "dow, dow, dow," right on the beat and it'll ruin it."

- Wow.

- "He slides into it.

Let him do the vocals."

So, I became the vocal picker.

- Wow.

- The main singer for all the vocal pickers.

I've been copied worldwide.

I didn't think about that the other day- or year or so ago.

Everybody copies that sound with Roy.

So, they're still doing it.

- That's interesting and, and your vo-, your voice.

And I'm, I'm assuming this is your natural voice.

It is very complementary to where Roy was.

- Yeah, because Roy had this high piercing voice.

I had this low soft voice, and the contrast worked.

- Wow.

- Perfect contrast.

- Well, the world knows, "Blue Bayou" because of Roy Orbison and Linda Ronstadt.

Did you like her version?

- Oh, that's the only version anybody sang that Roy sang that I thought beat him.

- Wow.

- She beat him.

- Wow.

- Let's face it.

That girl nailed, "Blue Bayou" to the wall.

- [laughing] - And I couldn't believe it, and I heard it.

I heard a friend of mine come in said, "You know-" Yeah, I was working at, uh, Regent Dodge.

And a friend of mine came in, Gene Lawrence, who was a nice fella.

He played music also.

He said, "You know, you got a hit out."

I said, "What?"

- [laughs] - He said, "You got a song called, "Blue Bayou" "that they're tearin' up the radio with, "they play it all the time."

So, I called the company and I said, "I've got a song called, "Blue Bayou" out?"

They said, "Yeah, with Linda Ronstadt."

And he said, "Man, it's going to be a big one."

- [laughs] - "Everybody's on it."

I didn't even know about it.

'Ti-till he told me and I called in.

But, that song- ah, I'll give you a little background on it.

It went all over the US.

It went- in good music, it went rock, it went pop, and it went country.

And oversees, all the number one artists cut it.

The number one artist in France.

The number one artist in South America.

The number one artist in Germany.

And you- even Alvin and The Chipmunks.

[laughing] - I heard that- that was so funny.

[chuckles] But that thing went every language.

Boy, Linda Ronstadt, they all tried to copy her- and they did their own language.

They did a wonderful job.

It went to number one, in every country in Europe.

Overseas.

- That had to be so surprising that a song- - Ah, It was a great surprise.

- Yeah.

- And I got to thank Jehovah, my Creator.

No one could ever- The way that song came about is that Linda, had not heard the song.

And she went on tour with this group.

Um- gosh, they sang, ah- "Desperado."

- Oh, the Eagles.

- The Eagles.

- Yes.

- And Don Henley said, "Linda, we're going to do a song called, "Blue Bayou," "but I think it's better for you."

- Wow.

- And he gave it to her- she worked out three weeks.

- [laughs] Before she'd try it- sing those notes, she was at- I think she was at that endin' note.

- Yeah.

And Don Henley's- the way I understand it.

He sang harmony on the hit record with her.

- Yeah.

- Boy, she nailed it to the wall.

- [laughs] - When I heard that endin', I said, "Forget it, that record's gone."

- That was a- you know, that's a very definition of timeless music.

That it can be recorded, I think probably 10 years apart?

Maybe a little bit more than that.

Probably, 15 years apart.

- Oh, it's, well I don't know- a long time.

- Yeah.

- You're right.

- Yeah, yeah.

And, uh, and it just works beautifully.

Did you then call her and say, "Hey I've got some more songs."

- I never got to talk to her.

- Ah, okay.

- Ah, she's pretty much guarded by the managers.

I never did- I should have.

But, I might still send her a congrats.

She's got Alzheimer I can understand.

- Yeah.

- But, She might be able to understand.

- Oh, I'm sure.

- How much I appreciate her.

- Oh, I'm sure she would love to hear from you.

- I might send her a "thank you" note since I know it's late.

- But I want to tell you - [laughs] - that you did the most beautiful job on "Blue Bayou" could have ever been done.

I may do it.

Thank you for bringing it up.

- Th- that's fantastic.

What's the story behind, "Running Scared?"

- "Running Scared," Roy and I, in relationships- to give ya a little background then.

We're never secure, totally in a relationship.

I wasn't, and Roy wasn't secure with Claudette, I don't think.

Maybe because of his- his looks- ah, what they said about his looks.

I don't know, but it's a song about both of us.

Afraid we're going to lose that girl.

And I actually had that experience.

I- she- in fact, she's in both the songs.

But this girl had a guy that was coming back to get her.

He was in the Army and as soon as he got out- She wanted him, he wanted her.

So, I kind of wrote on the premise of that.

And we're all afraid that girls' guys are going to come back.

And one day he did show up.

[laughing] And we- but we turned the ending to where she- on the last words she walked away with him, you know, and it made a big hit.

It was the first romantic ballad that went to number one.

It went straight to number one- it was so different, you know.

It had that Bolero beat like the Mexicans play for, for a bull ride, thank you, [imitates beat box] You know, it had it.

- Who produced those records?

- Roy and I produced both of them.

- Really?

- Silently, we didn't get credit.

But would they- they were ready when we went to session.

We had the arrangement worked out.

We had the backup vocals worked out.

Of course, we had the song worked out.

So there was nothin' left to produce, but just listen.

- Yeah, the sound.

- Fred Foster took the credit for it.

And he- I think he did good.

He was really good on the road with our records and stuff.

- The sound is so big, you know, it's- - Yeah, it did.

We had good engineers, Bill Porter and- I can't think of the other guy, We had good engineers.

- And then there's "Blue Angel."

Where did Blue Angel come from?

You mentioned that it's your daughter.

- For my daughter.

- Yeah.

- Uh, I was in Midland, Texas and my wife had a little girl.

Mis- Michelle.

And, I think I named her Michelle D and myself.

And I thought she's so beautiful layin' there.

And when I came out of the hospital I said, "That was an angel just layin' there.

I said, "Blue Angel."

And I said, "It's got be a song."

And so I got stopped by a cop, he gave me a ticket.

And I- I- I-, he wouldn't let me put of it.

I think I got it- I think they kind of made my mood blue.

And then I saw an angel, "Blue Angel" came in.

I wrote it for my daughter.

- The cop- - I think back, Roy and I finished it up.

- Th- the cop wouldn't let you off minutes after you had a new baby?

- I'm sorry?

- He wasn't very kind, you just had a baby.

- I know it and I think he gave me a ticket anyways.

- He said , "You won't be able to have many more "if you keep driving like that."

- Oh my, okay.

[chuckles] - I don't know- they're just doing their job.

- Yeah.

- Are there- you know, the Linda Ronstadt song, was a very pleasant surprise.

Are there other covers of your songs that you are- are not so pleasantly- - I think, Don McLean's, cover of "Crying."

- You like that?

- Oh, he did a beautiful job.

He ah- he looked- they started him out in England and h- his career here wasn't doing good.

So they decided to rejuvenate it in Europe.

So, they started out in England pushing "Crying."

And hit, went to number one in England, I think.

I don't know, where else- they said, "If we get it to hit here "we'll release it in the U.S., "and the U.S., oh, it's a hit over here, "so, they'll pick it up."

And it did, it went straight into top 10.

I think, it went maybe top- top five country.

It-It was a- I loved the way he sang it.

And I met him at the BMI dinner.

- Huh.

- Gave him a big hug and said, "Thank you for the song."

Yeah.

- [laughs] He wisely didn't try to compete with you guys.

He didn't try to match Roy's voice.

- No.

- He just did it his way.

- He sang it- you was absolutely right.

He did it his way and he just- he said, "You, you'd- I got this song at a good time."

"My wife and I just got a divorce."

So his heart was in that song.

- Mmm.

- He- he delivered it, it was beautiful.

- Of those big hits you had with Roy Orbison, what are you most proud of?

What are you- which hit are you most proud of?

- I think, "Only The Lonely."

- Yeah.

- Which was our first baby, you know, - Yeah.

- It was the first one and it still playing up- three four million- it's up in the big category.

It did not get in- as high as, "Crying" and on... ah, "Blue Bayou" in the song of the century.

But it's my- I- I really love that song.

Because it's my baby- I started out with that song.

- You- you stopped writing with Roy for a time, but you were there to help him with a comeback song in the 70s, weren't you?

- Yeah, um- let's see, we cut a comeback song called, "Cry Softly Lonely One."

And I did the backup vocals for Don Gant.

And he- I used him as a co-writer, and that brought Roy back in the charts.

- Yeah.

- It- It was a big hit in Canada, I think, and other places.

But I redid- try to recapture what Roy was.

Not what he was at the moment, but what he used to be.

It kind of pulled him to the top again- toward the top.

- So after those big hits with Roy, you had some fun with a group called, The New Beats.

- Oh, I did.

And, uh, you met Larry Henley.

- I- I did, and for, and for, and for viewers at home, they need to know that, Larry Henley is also a member, of the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

- I'm glad.

- He wrote, "Wind Beneath My Wings."

- I know it.

- And he was the lead falsetto in this great little group called, The New Beats.

They're best known for "Bread and Butter" was their big hit record.

- They really were a terrific group.

Ah, I met them- I'd written a song with Bob Montgomery or two.

I don't remember the name of the song.

I went down to show it to them.

And they were all there.

And ah- they all, you know, 'cause of my hits out, you know, were admired me, I guess, you'd say, or were real attentive to me.

But Peewee.

I got to listen to him.

- [laughs] - And it didn't take too long to figure out, that Peewee was a basic of that group.

And he knew what he was talking about, just a real little fella, but he had a brain.

Man, he had the music brain.

And he was up on the Motown beat.

He was good on- and he's the one I brought, "Bread and Butter" from Texas, to Tennessee, myself.

- Mmm.

- And gave it to Wesley Rose, Acuff-Rose.

And Peewee found it.

- Ah.

- He called Larry and them, he said, "Y'all get over here, I found a song."

I think, Jody at Acuff-Rose showed it to him.

He put that together with Larry up in the falsetto, and he and his brother, Mark, singing harmony.

And they had a hit, man, it was knocked out.

- Great record, great record.

Um, we just have a couple of minutes left, and I want to ask you about what you're doing now?

With an artist from Australia.

I know you're writing and he's performing your songs.

Can you tell us about that?

- His ah- that's Damien Leith.

He won the Australian Idol title.

And I don't know- few years back.

And he got a wonderful voice.

Oh, he sings so beautiful.

He can sing about as high as Roy.

But he don't sound like Roy.

He's got his own style.

We've written several songs, we put some on the market.

We haven't got that number one yet.

But he is so- such a nice guy and a great singer that I love working with him.

So we write on Skype, hopefully, once every week- On ah, like, a Saturday, I write- his Sunday- my Saturday, [chuckles] and we write songs together.

And he's, ah- he's very good on ideas.

And I had them put it together, you know.

Usually they, you know- he has a lot of ideas, but they don't have any, any coordination, no theme.

So, I try to put it together to make it a song.

So he can sing a whole song.

- [laughing] - But we've got several songs.

We got one or two, that's really good.

And, uh- but, hopefully he wants to come to Nashville, I think.

And, and u-use part of the- probably Nashville Symphony strings.

And pull in and cut a big session, which I hope we do.

And that's the next move, I think that he wants to make- is to come here.

But he's a joy to write with and a wonderful singer and I love him.

- That's great.

You've been writing for more than 60 years.

- Yeah.

- Does it still come naturally?

- Well, I- you never- You got to give the Creator of the universe credit for any song you get.

Because it don't come from me.

I don't know where it comes from.

Roy and I used to talk about it.

I don't anything, it just floats in.

[laughter] And, uh- it's amazing how songs can come to you.

The melody's there.

Usually the melody- used to- the melody always came first to me.

If I liked the melody, I'd entertain the lyrics.

They were the father to the lyric.

Now, I've study more, so I'm not sure which one comes first.

I still like melody better than the lyrics.

[chuckles] - Well there's- - When I find out the lyrics are such an intricate part of that song.

You can love the melody and it's catchy, and you latch onto it because you love it, but if that lyric don't hold up after a while, they'll drop it.

- Yeah, well- - It's very important.

They're both equally important.

- You're one of those rare writers, who not only has written one classic.

You've written two, and arguably many more.

And, you know, 60 years later, everyone knows, "Crying."

Everyone knows, "Blue Bayou," bayou.

A 100 years on I have a hunch both songs will be on the radio in one form or another- [chuckles] - I don't know.

- On whatever box is there in the next century.

Very well done.

Joe Melson, thank you so much, real pleasure.

- Nice to meet you, sir.

[acoustic guitar music] - For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall Of Fame, please visit, nashvillesongwriters foundation.com